On second thought it takes 3

brs411
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« on: January 21, 2010, 01:49:33 PM »

The more I read on this site and every one like it the more upset I get. I realize after a traumatic event that may occur in our lives there may be a huge need for a support system in which we can safely express our emotions. But with that said give me a break. Just has much as the victim is hurt in these events so are the offenders. I have begged for forgiveness for two years been told that forgivness could be given only to have it taken away when the victim has a bad memory. Just as I had to be honest with myself on why I wanted to end the A so must she decide if it can be forgiven. I have sought help for us for me, and asked her to do the same but no "who wants to blab about bad memories all day?" me neither but its better than sitting at home tracking every phone bill for the rest of your life. Bottom line I truly feel sorry for my wife, but can't keep these circles going for the rest of our lives out of pity. I f'd up. I know now lets do something about it. It really does take 3 for the A to happen. It didnt happen just because I woke up one morning thinking gee lets bring this perfect little world down today. Maybe some things truly are unforgivable.


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leeford
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Re: On second thought it takes 3

« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 09:30:43 PM »

I tend to agree that it often takes three to make an affair happen. One spouse ignores the other's needs, the ignored person seeks refuge in person number three who provides open arms.

But it can take a long time to get over for the person who was "cheated on." Trust has to be built back. Forgiveness is a choice but feelings can keep people feeling depressed and betrayed. That's life and how it works so it's best if we accept that it could take a long time and celebrate improvements and even small amounts of healing.

The LovePath 911 seminar is incredibly successful in helping people who are struggling to heal from an affair. You can learn more about it here.


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"It's not about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." -Rocky Balboa

cindyjo
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Re: On second thought it takes 3

« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 12:06:36 AM »

I am sorry, but I have to speak up. Like your wife, I am the "victim" of my husband's affair. Sure, there may have been problems in our marriage, but that does not excuse him for trying to solve those problems in some other woman's bed. It sounds as if you are casting blame on your wife for your actions. You made a choice to look outside of the marriage for fulfillment of some unmet need - your wife did not make you do it. She didn't wake up one morning and say, "What can I do to make my husband be unfaithful today?" So, no - it doesn't take 3 to make an affair happen. It only took 2 - you and your affair partner.

Perhaps you could start by accepting full responsibility for your actions and stop blaming your wife. Trust me, she is likely already blaming herself for everything anyway. Maybe she needs to hear you tell her it is in no way her fault and mean it. Don't make excuses because there are none. Your actions may be inexcusable, but they are not unforgivable. It almost sounds to me as if you are equating your wife's forgiveness with her forgetting. Unfortunately, the two are not linked in that way. As Joanna said, forgiveness is a decision of the will, but forgetting is not a choice. Bad memories will come up - how you both deal with them will be the key to minimizing their intensity and frequency.

You have begged for forgiveness, but have you been truly remorseful? Have you sincerely grieved over the pain you have caused her? Have you been willing to be an open book, transparent and accountable for your whereabouts? Have you communicated that you are willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild trust and help her heal no matter how long that takes? Have you reassured her of your commitment to her and your marriage?

I know it is impossible for you to understand just how traumatic an affair is. From my personal experience and from everything I have read on the subject, I can tell you that it is worse than the death of a loved one. The sense of loss that accompanies an affair is felt on so many different levels. It is not just the loss of trust - it is the loss of identity, of worth, of pride, of confidence, of security, of specialness, of purpose.... The profound grief over all these losses is real and should not be underestimated. Nor should the grief process be put on some arbitrary time table. I understand that it would be much easier for you if she just got over it, but it is not that quick or easy. In fact, I recently read an article on this topic that indicated on average it takes couples 3-5 years to recover from the effects of an affair. Your wife doesn't need your pity she needs your love, help, and patience.

I am sorry....I sense from the tone of your post that you wanted to hear from sympathizers rather than from another victim.


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brs411
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Re: On second thought it takes 3

« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 05:53:53 PM »

Sypathizers? No. Excuses? definetly not. All I meant by the post is no it is not going to be easy. I don't blame three for the A to happen, but yes it will take three for the healing to begin....the A partner to exit the stage (easier said than done) the A offender to want redemption, and the "victim" to be willing to give it. Open book? Yes to say the absolute least. What I think I have learned however and so many others wish to hear, is that is not neccessarly possible. My wife is the type of person who I know i could cheat on tomorrow and she would still stand beside me the next day. Sorry don't respect that. Won't happen again, but sometimes the victim must learn too...guess thats all I meant


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Joanna
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Re: On second thought it takes 3

« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2010, 10:05:30 AM »

My take on all this is, you seem like you want forgiveness asap and want to move forward w/o looking back.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you had an affair. Your wife is STILL trying to deal with it in her own way so, don't rush this. Human nature tells us that we want forgiveness for what we've done wrong and as soon as we ask for that, then it must be given right away. Well, in a lot of situations it takes more than just that. This is one of them. I'm glad that you've sought counseling for both of you. And I understand how it can be discouraging to think someone has forgiven you and then the next day it seems like it's back to the way it was. But, this is a big deal. The trust between the two of you has been broken. That "safe place" has been violated and you just need to understand that that's not something that can be forgotten overnight...or in a few months.

Like Cindyjo said, most marriages that have been affected by an affair take years before they truly can move on. Not saying this will be the case with you and your wife, but if it does take that long then you need to understand and not have a bitter attitude about it. B/c I get that from your first post. You sound like you're angry at your wife b/c she's not moving fast enough on the forgiveness train. You need to remember that it was you that messed up and be thankful that she hasn't kicked you out! I really don't want to sound mean or heartless, but you just need to be patient with her. And in your recent post you said " My wife is the type of person who I know i could cheat on tomorrow and she would still stand beside me the next day. Sorry don't respect that." Well, I think you should respect that. There are a lot of women out there that don't give their husbands second chances when they cheat.

I know you had a part in this but I also know that you wouldn't have done it if you had a good marriage. There is/was something missing that made you go out and do this. So, even though this post may seem like I'm being hard on you I also know your wife needs to step up and do her part in this too. If you had a fullfilling marriage this would not have happened. As Lee said in his post, the LovePath 911 seminar is incredibly successful in helping people who are struggling to heal from an affair. I highly suggest that you look into this! It will really help get the healing process going for both of you.


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DR S
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Re: On second thought it takes 3

« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2010, 11:35:38 AM »

I just want to say I'm glad this is being discussed. I have been watching this blog and tried to reply but couldn't come up with the right words.
My wife says, "I drove her to the edge but she decided to jump." I find no comfort in that. Who was responsible for this? We were both responsible for a bad marriage but she is ultimately responsible for her actions.
But on the one hand (hers) I saw a big weight removed after she came clean. And she was ready to move forward. I, on the other hand, was trying to deal with it now ; in the present, like it was still going on.
Please, keep up the conversation b/c it helps all of us to work through this.

Remember: Forgiveness is not forgetting! If God felt that way, why did He remove Adam and Eve from the Garden?

DR S


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ontheline
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Re: On second thought it takes 3

« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 03:47:48 PM »

"My wife is the type of person who I know i could cheat on tomorrow and she would still stand beside me the next day. Sorry don't respect that. Won't happen again, but sometimes the victim must learn too...guess that's all I meant"

brs411..Let me just say that I highly doubt you "won't do it again"...I know that sounds judgmental and may make you defensive to the rest of this post but PLEASE hear me. Just in the tone of your posts I hear a pang of justification. Justification is the death of "begging for forgiveness". Period. And if you really feel , in your heart, that in some way you were justified, it will come out in your actions. It only takes 2 to make an affair. If you have issues with your wife then deal with those issues. Whatever the issues they have nothing to do with an affair. If you choose to use those troubled times to seek attention from another then that is a choice YOU and you alone have made now causing your issues to be TRUMPED by the affair...so overshadowed that the betrayed person cannot deal with them as they are now dealing with betrayal. Let me give you the example I give my ex husband all of the time ( he is so sick of it I know) ...

Say you have a kitchen fire...it's on top of the stove. People can handle kitchen fires. Most the time there isn't even a need to call in the professionals. They are a pain, they stink, they damage and they are a MESS. But, none the less they are manageable! Marriages go through periods of kitchen fires! Sometimes back to back...sometimes here and there, but at some point we all get them.

Now, say you are going through a kitchen fire and someone comes into your house and pours gasoline all over the stove. NOW, that unpleasant but manageable fire has spread so fast you cant see anything and in a matter of twenty min. your entire house is burned to the ground! Memories gone, plans for that new deck in the summer, gone, children are now burned and so on and so on.

So here comes the spouse who opened the door, handed the gas can to some other person to pour on your fire and burn down your house, and they are asking for forgiveness. But, in their heart and in actions, saying that in some way you helped in the burning.

Can you see how
justification, even if it is just in your heart, is so so dangerous?! Eventually that will grow and between that and the lack of respect you have for your wife because she wont kick you to the curb ( jeesh!..you need to re examine that!) and the next kitchen fire...the likelyhood of a repeat is HUGE.

So, maybe instead of attacking your wife because she wont go to counseling because she isn't ready for that in her process of healing, maybe YOU go for awhile and work on you and examine weather you have it in you to be married...to love someone unconditionally..even through your kitchen fires.


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brs411
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Re: On second thought it takes 3

« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2010, 10:53:55 AM »

I do hear you ontheline yes that was judgemental and yes my first reaction normally would be to become defensive, however, because I have sought my own counseling I realize that is not how these situations can be dealt with. I can never justify my actions and do not intend to sound as if that is what I am seeking, but even in saying that raises the real issue I deal with every day (for the past two and half years not months) is the toxic guilt from everything that happened. Just as most who are posting on these boards are asking "how could they do that?", I highly doubt I am the only one reading your posts asking myself "how can they forgive that?". I read trying to understand what my wife is thinking, and do try to utilize the helpful advice that does occasionally come through, but still have to wonder why would she? I believe my wife and I love eachother, but since the A has ended the only real glue holding us together is our daughter. We have both agreed with no children involved we most likely would not be where we are today. I do not use that as an excuse to stay together, more hoping if that is our only foundation it is a strong one and one day we can build around it.

My wife and I are young...met young, married young, and started our family young. We were eachothers one and only; her more dependent on me than I was on her. I cannot be made to feel that her emotional health is strictly based on what I do or say for the rest of our lives. I do want to see her make those changes for if nothing else to see her happy.

That is not justification, what I did was horrible and I would give ANYTHING to wind the clock back and erase that entire portion of my life. Being eachothers one and only is where our biggest problem is moving forward. For an entire year I basically led another life away from my wife. Memories made, conversations had, moments my wife was not a part of. When we were in counseling the first time we tried to bring everything out in the open, but to recall and speak of that part of life was difficult for me. When she was given the facts she has obsessed on places we can never go, songs we can never hear, and memories we can never mention again. For how long do we have to live constanstantly worrying what the other is thinking?

Perhaps the real answer is both sides NEED to stop focusing on the "Why". Why did I? I can't answer that, I do not blame anyone but myself, S*** happens. Why should she forgive? If I can't answer my Why how can expect an answer from her?

I can't change the past, can't worry anymore about what the future holds......My focus is today


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Joanna
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Re: On second thought it takes 3

« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2010, 02:57:56 PM »

brs,

I think it's the right thing to do to stay together for your daughter. There has been tons of research that is in favor of the parents staying together for the kids. On the other hand, you must work on your relationship in the process.

It kind of sounds to me that you are done wanting to know "why" this happened, when, in fact, that is exactly what you need to be seeking! The answer to why you did it. Because once you find out the reason, you can move forward and know what paths you need to seek rather than wondering aimlessly blaming yourself. I can give you part of the reason this happened. You weren't being fullfilled in one or more areas of your marriage. You didn't have the marital satisfaction to keep you strong. Wheather it was sex, intimacy (yes, it's different than sex), companionship or something else, your wife wasn't filling it for you. I'm not saying she's a bad person, but more than likely you were telling her what you needed and she wasn't hearing it. That's is very, very common in marriage.

What you and your wife need to do is attend the LovePath 911 workshop. It is a very intense 3 day weekend workshop and it WILL teach you and your wife the "why" and also teach you what you and your wife need to do to keep this from happening again. It will also help your wife start realizing that she can get past this. She CAN forgive you and eventually go to the places and listen to the songs that she's so adamantly avoiding right now. Click on the link at the top of the page or you can call 866-903-0990. It will be the best money you have ever spent!

I understand that you are going to counseling right now, but many counselors are sending their patience to this workshop along with the care they are receiving from them...in other words, it doesn't take the place of counseling. But I highly recommend it for both of you. It is something that you go through together and in the process of learning about the "LovePath" you will also learn a lot about yourself and each other. It is a very eye opening workshop! My husband and I went through it in July of last year and it has helped us tremendously! The workshop saves 3 out of ever 4 marriages that walk through the door. And that's in 3 days!! It doesn't fix the problem, but it gives you the knowledge and the tools that when you leave and go home, you know what you need to do and you actually have hope!

I really hope that both of you attend the workshop. Look at it this way, you can keep things the way they are and hope that they improve, or you can try the workshop. You really have nothing to lose and only happiness to gain!

Joanna


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ontheline
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Re: On second thought it takes 3

« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2010, 02:16:46 PM »

Brs~
I am very happy you are focusing on today and not the past as we know dwelling there too long can lead to distruction. But there is something to be said for reconciling the past. And, for some reason, your wife is not feeling as though that has happened. If she is who you say...someone who would be there with you even if you did this again, then she is looking to be with you and move fw. and is probably just as frustrated as you are that she is struggling to move beyond this.

I'm sorry you feel judged by my statement that, chances are, this is going to happen again. But, you see, I am a firm believer that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. And, I can only go by what you say, tone of your posts and the wisdom I have gained being in your wife's shoes. SEVERAL times as a matter of fact. The final one being the destroyer of not only my family but the other family as well.

Unless you have had a huge heart change and are all about this marriage NO MATTER WHAT! NO matter how long it takes your wife to heal, you are IN IT and you are going to win her heart....chances are your "demons" will return at some point and that sense of frustration over your wife's healing process( which I hear in your posts) will turn to many many bad things.

All of your wife's feeling are stemming from fear. And yours probably from shame and the frustration that this cannot be put to bed. I think the workshop is a great idea and may really help your wife! It will also show her that you mean business with wanting to heal your relationship. Which in turn will be a huge help. Having gone through this process several times over in my marriage I say this with great conviction. DO NOT let this destroy your family. This is your "man" time to shine. Be that knight and shining armor every woman needs and wants. Be in it to win it and show her that you are the man God made you to be...stick with it! You will be honoring God and your wife and your child!!

Try this...every week sit down with her, just the two of you, and tell her you are there for her and wanna talk about WHATEVER it is she wants to talk about. Then, no matter what she says about the Affair, react with affirming statements ( because remember..that is not the man you are any more so you don't need to defend yourself against what you are going to see as attacks) If she says "All I see is you two together!" then you come back with " I know honey, and I am going to make sure you start just seeing us together" if she says, " How could you have done this to our family" you say " I am so sorry I hurt us, and I am going to show you that I will never leave you" things like that...
Once you do that for awhile, she is going to be much more receptive to talking about the Why's.

And take her out! Buy her a little gift, ship the little one off for a weekend at Grammas, do something that is showing your repentance. Girls love that stuff:) Best wishes. Trust me...Divorce SUCKS!!!


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